We have introduced Wild Game, promoted it, and talked about it several times over the past few months — now it's YOUR turn! Carole, Kym, and I have each posed a different question on our blogs and we hope you'll answer our questions in the comments. And don't let the questions constrain you. If there is something you want to say about the book that isn't an answer to a discussion question, please feel free.
Even though Wild Game was a memoir I think it read very much like a novel, in a stranger-than-fiction way for me. I was amazed that Malabar would ensnare her daughter in her extramarital affair with Ben, and things got even stranger when Adrienne married Ben's son Chris. Eventually, Chris and Adrienne divorced, but Malabar and Ben had married, so the author's ex-husband was her stepbrother. Eww!
My main question was the same one that Adrienne's boyfriend Adam asked, "What kind of person would do that to her daughter?" But that's not my discussion question. Even though parts of this book repulsed me, after finishing it, I always came back to the fact that the author had finally matured, set boundaries, and become her own person (even if decades late) and managed to tell her story in a way that showed compassion and maybe even forgiveness for her mother. I wondered how and why she managed this and found an answer in a Psychology Today interview.
Becoming a mother made all of the events of my past resurface. Even though I had done a lot of work on myself, I was terrified of repeating some of the destructive behaviors I grew up with. Part of my family’s past for generations was that we carried a lot of secrets. I was worried about inadvertently harming my children if I didn’t fully address what had happened to me.
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| Adrienne Brodeur's mother, Malabar |
My own parents were rigid, strict, and authoritative, with no room for discussion. When I would ask questions about their seemingly random rules and arbitrary reasons, my father would decree, "Do as I say, not as I do!" This made me angry and I swore to never say that to my own kids (and I never have). In many ways, I've tried to make conscious efforts not to parent my own children that way, but only Ryan and Justin can say if I've been at all successful. But as I get older, I do see glimpses of my parents in myself and wonder:
Are we all destined to become our parents in some way, shape, or form?
I'm very much looking forward to reading what you have to say. Please be sure to visit Kym and Carole and let us know what you think about their questions.
But wait, there's more! Once again we have a book lover's surprise package thoughtfully and generously provided by Kym, to be awarded to one lucky reader. Your name will be placed in a hat EACH time you make a comment on each of our book discussion posts and we will then choose a winner. Thank you for participating — our book group wouldn't be much of a group if you didn't read and offer your opinions.
I had a very similar reaction to the book. It seemed so unbelievable at times that I could have easily believed that it was fiction. Sometimes I wanted to shake Adrienne to wake her up to what her mother was doing, but I know that as the child in the relationship, that wasn't her job. Like any daughter (any child, really), she just wanted to be loved and valued by her mother.
ReplyDeleteAs to your question, I'd say it's very complicated. Even if we disagree completely with our parents' parenting style, if we grow up in that environment, it's probably hard to completely remove it from our subconscious. After all, until we're old enough to know the difference, most of us believe that the way our parents act toward us is the way parents are. I think that in the case of extremely dangerous parenting (abuse or neglect), it probably takes a high level of self-awareness and likely a lot of work in therapy to understand that it wasn't the child's fault and that there are many parents who are much more caring and healthy in their relationships with their children. I don't think we're doomed to repeat our parents' mistakes, but sometimes it takes a really concerted effort to parent differently.
Well stated, Sarah! It wasn't until I went away to college that I had close glimpses into other people's lives and their relationships with their parents. Luckily for most parents, children love them, oftentimes no matter how many mistakes we've made and learning on the job. It's the concerted effort to parent differently that can be tough at times!
DeleteI think that's what makes it so heartbreaking when we hear about parents who are abusive or neglectful -- their children love them by default, and all they want is to be loved. And really, as a parent, I've found that children are the most forgiving of probably anyone we'll ever be in a relationship with. They will love us almost unconditionally, even when we don't show them as much love as we should, and we should never take advantage of that but rather nurture it.
DeleteI think this is a fascinating question, Bonny! I would LIKE to believe that I've taken the best things about the way my parents raised me - while leaving the worst things behind - in raising my own children. I made many conscious decisions about things I would NEVER do - and I haven't. I think boundaries are critical in parent/child relationships -- "oversharing" and treating children as "best friends and confidants" always seems to lead to the danger-zone in terms of healthy relationship building. I mean, I loved my mom and we were very close. But it was always very clear where our boundaries were! I've been like that with my own kids, as well.
ReplyDeleteI think this is all pretty easy for me to say. I had a stable upbringing with parents who loved me and kept me safe. I have much respect for those not so lucky -- who are able to break patterns and do the difficult work of raising their own children "differently." Most of the interviews with Adrienne Brodeur that I listened to or read dealt with her strong incentive to "deal with her demons" once she became a parent herself. (That's a terrible sentence, but I think you'll know what I meant.) That's the strong message I got from this book: Even if you had a really terrible relationship with your mother, you don't have to repeat that with your own child.
I agree with everything you've said, Kym! I also tried to take the best from my parents and make conscious choices, and I think my parents may have tried to do some of the same. If we're lucky, we get better parenting than maybe our own parents had. I can think of several people who did not deal with their own demons before having children and the children are paying the price for that. Change is difficult, but possible, and I admire Adrienne Brodeur for changing for her children.
DeleteI just didn't like the book, and didn't even finish it. I found nothing to like about it at all. Granted, my upbringing - though really bizarre in lots of ways - was a walk in the park compared to this. I'm glad from what I've read that others have said that the author was able to move beyond it, but it was just not something I wanted to keep reading. At all.
ReplyDeleteI think I found the book so strangely bizarre that I read it as incredulous fiction. I was impressed that the author could and did move beyond her awful mother, and in a compassionate way (as opposed to a Mommy Dearest kind of memoir).
DeleteGreat question Bonny! I think/hope we take the "good stuff" from our parents and incorporate that into our lives and leave the other stuff behind. It's inevitable that some of their behaviors/beliefs/whatever spill into our own lives. I did not like the book at all. It was impossible for me to relate to it and it was not something I would have picked up to read as fiction. I'm surprised I even finished it!! LOL As I mentioned on Carole's blog, please don't include me in the prize drawing - I've already won once!!
ReplyDeleteI think you're right that we hopefully take the good stuff from our own parents, but this book showed me that sometimes that can be a very difficult process. I didn't share any of the same circumstances with the author, but it did make me grateful for that fact!
DeleteI don't think we are destined to become our parents. At the same time, I don't think it's possible to escape the influence that our parents have on our parenting skills.
ReplyDeleteThere are many things my mother did that I vowed never to do....and I have not. But like you, there are certain things that do worm their way through. After all, a family is a sort of tribe. And tribes exist to impart a sense of belonging and identity. This is who we are, this is what we do, this is how we see the world.
In our family, it is the sense of humor that makes us a tribe. (I'm aware of that having a new DIL who took a little time to catch on to it.) In the Brodeur family it appears that secrets and infidelity were part of the tribal identity. Adrienne has discovered the toxicity in that and has worked to overcome it.
Your comparison of a family to a tribe is a very interesting one, and one that explains a lot about families that work as well as the dysfunctional ones. I've honestly never thought about this but I will be in terms of my own family, and that of my husband. His family has just experienced a death of a family member and there is much upheaval, along with rampant emotions, blame, and pettiness. Your statement of "this is who we are, this is what we do, this is how we see the world" will be providing me with lots of food for thought. (And humor is wonderful!)
DeleteThis question is difficult for me to answer. I am not a mother and I never married, instead I was devoted to my career. I think this was always something that was difficult between my mother and me, she would always seem on edge when talking with me, not fully relaxed like when she could discuss family matters with my sister, sister-in-laws, and brothers. Of course, I have certain traits that are definitely from my mother.
ReplyDeleteAh, parental hopes and expectations! Almost all of us are subject to them, and in my case my mother expected me to go back to work after I had my children. I had trouble finding child care and it it didn't make financial sense to work to pay for bad child care, but my mother told me I would become a "mush-brain" if I stayed home. So my mother and I had the same sort of difficulties between us. I think devotion to a career like yours is admirable, but I do understand how mothers can feel. I am constantly trying not to force my own hopes/expectations on my own children.
DeleteWhile I don’t think we are destined to parent the same way as our parents, their parenting style is the one modeled to us on a daily basis. In a particularly dysfunctional style, like Adrienne, the child is caught between the need for love and nurturing and things they may not be ready to handle. I’d like to think that I took the good things my parents did and discarded those that did not ring true. To be honest though, I was blessed to have pretty amazing parents.
ReplyDeleteIn an ideal world we would all take the good things modeled by our parents and discard the others, and in this ideal world we would all be blessed to have amazing parents. My parents did the best that they could, which was really pretty good, especially given that parenting is a tough job. I was glad that the author took her incredibly dysfunctional childhood and was able to do the hard work to become a better parent (and human being) for her own children, in spite of what had been modeled to her.
DeleteThere is a reason (many reasons) I don't have children. My parents were young and their parenting changed from one child to the next (most parents seem to do that, imo). I was their first child and they worked with a heavy hand and a critical eye. I work every day to overcome the critic in my head. Honestly, this book was so outside of anything I had to deal with while growing up that I found it impossible to relate to any part of the story. At the end of the day, I like my parents and became good friends with them both once I had some perspective.
ReplyDeleteAs my parents' oldest child, I have that same critic in my head, too. I do think your comment about being friends with your parents once you had some perspective is a good one. I was fairly critical of my parents in my younger years, and there are still some things that I would strongly disagree with them about, but I learned some valuable lessons once I was a parent myself and had gained some perspective.
DeleteI don't think we are destined to become our parents. It did annoy me that she she ended up for a while with her step brother. I just thought after all she'd been through she wouldn't have stayed miles away from him. I spent most of the book angry at Malabar for I guess it all, she cheated on her husband, involved her daughter, etc. like all that mattered was what she wanted. It was very different than my upbringing. My parents are now in their 90's and were in their mid thirties when I was born. I have seen that selfishness to do what they want in other relatives and it also made me as mad as this book made me.
ReplyDeleteI agree; ending up with her step-brother and keeping the secret of their parents' affair from him was just plain crazy, but I think maybe the author was so messed up by that point that maybe she didn't know how to make good decisions. I was angry at Malabar also because what kind of person and mother does that to their daughter? It was indeed very selfish, self-centered, and damaging.
DeleteI don’t believe we are destined to become our parents but surely we are shaped by their parenting. I am also intrigued watching our daughters parent and finding pieces of me in there. I am fortunate ate that my parents tried to help us learn how to discern a discern and problem solve. This book made me think about parenting boundaries. I have seen a lot of problems in this area In my years as an early childhood educator. Good question.
ReplyDeleteGood answer, Juliann, especially based on your experience. I always said I wanted to raise children that could think for themselves, even when their thinking conflicted with mine. Your parents teaching you how to identify and solve problems is a very valuable life skill, and it's wonderful that you can now watch your daughters parent.
DeleteI think our parents' stamp on us is always there. But also that we CAN make choices to be different than they are/were, to treat our children differently than we were treated, and to heal from damage whether slight or traumatic.
ReplyDeleteThat is a wonderful way to look at it, Pam — our parents' stamp and influence is always with us but we can choose what to pass on and what to leave behind. I wish my parents were still around so I could have some conversations with them about things like this, but to be honest, they weren't exactly the "let's talk about life" kind of people. I am grateful that any damage I received/perceived in my upbringing was slight.
DeleteI think we are all influenced by our parents, whether we like it or not. I was 12 when my parents divorced and my dad was not terribly involved prior, so I basically feel that I was raised by a single parent. I know that I've made very conscious choices about letting some of their/her influence die with me. She had it really rough for a few years. I honestly can't imagine how awful it must have been for her and, though I've had to forgive some abuse, I know she always tried to do her best... it sometimes overwhelmed her. I agree with Margene about our parents' style changing... as it should, as they (hopefully) learn and grow. I'm the eldest of five born within a 6-year period and share some of what you both have expressed.
ReplyDeleteI think you hit upon something important when you said "I know she always tried to do her best... it sometimes overwhelmed her." Parenting is the toughest job I know, even in the best of circumstances, and sometimes overwhelming when those circumstances may be less than ideal. My mother and I were like oil and water, but like you, I think she did her best, loved me, kept me safe, and raised me with boundaries, even if I disagree with things she said, did, or didn't do.
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