Hello and welcome to the discussion for Agatha of Little Neon by Claire Luchette. I personally enjoyed our second nun book more than Matrix, and it seems as if many of you did also. Maybe it was the writing style, the characters of Agatha and her sisters, or that Agatha seemed a bit more likable than Marie, but we're ready to discuss the book and see what you thought.
One of the questions that struck me while reading Agatha concerns rules, recognizing and following them. There are rules that Agatha and her fellow sisters follow as part of the Catholic church, yet some of "the men in charge had been reckless" and did not follow these same rules. This led to lawsuits and bankruptcies, affecting Agatha, Sister Roberta, and the rest of the Diocese in Buffalo. There were rules for the addicts at Little Neon in Woonsocket where the sisters were relocated, but many of these were to make things easier for the people who run the halfway house and not for the inhabitants to overcome their addictions. The rules that the principal makes at the school where Agatha teaches were made to police the students' appearance and forbid any lesbian exploration, with no real thought given.
At the end of the book, Agatha begins to decide which rules to follow and which no longer have any use to her. Are you a rule-follower? Do you question the rules you follow? Do you think Agatha was successful at maturing and seeing that some rules might be hurting her rather than helping? Do you think Agatha lost anything by choosing to follow rules? Do you think Agatha abandons her belief in the Church and its rules or her belief in God?
You could learn to live without a part of yourself ... I did. For years, I lived like this. And then I started to yearn for what I had lost.
If you have anything to say about rules and following them or not, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to leave a comment and /or let us know your thoughts tonight on Zoom. I hope to see you tonight!
I am generally a rule follower -- but only when I think the rules are good ones, made for a logical reason. Clearly a lot of the rules in Agatha's world were not serving her well (and I have to say that I was really amused at the sisters' clear irritation with the men messing things up for them!).
ReplyDeleteI'm mostly a rule follower, too, as long as there is a good reason for the rules. So many of the rules in Agatha's world were not based upon reason, but she began to question them along with her adherence when she got out in the world.
DeleteI have a . . . difficult relationship . . . with rules. I mean, I follow them, but I get annoyed by rules that make no sense at all to me. I definitely question, and I often rebel against them . . . quietly and often passive-aggressively. (I could never be a religious sister.) I was cheering for Agatha to rebel, actually. For her to think about and consider the rules she was so (blindly?) following. I think that was the thing about this book that contrasts to clearly with Matrix. Marie (Matrix) BROKE all the rules; Agatha blindly followed. Until she didn't.
ReplyDeleteAgatha certainly began to question things (quietly) when she got out into the world and began to teach. I liked watching this process while still feeling sorry for her, especially when she said something about not knowing the Church could break your heart after Tim Gary's funeral. Marie broke all the rules and then made rules of her own!
DeleteSome rules I have no issue with.... traffic laws, don't take things that are not yours, don't hurt others. I try to follow those rules without exception. However, then there come the rules like what is going on in Florida now... don't say gay. Really? Umm, nope. This is not a rule that is for the "common good" And I think there are some very good correlations between that sort of nonsense and some of the things happening in Agatha. The rule of silence, for instance, worked until someone could not keep silent.
ReplyDeleteI think Agatha's inner voice began to speak more loudly and clearly to her about rules that are not really rules, but instead a way to keep someone silent.
I could imagine Agatha's inner voice speaking quite loudly at Tim Gary's funeral when she said something about not knowing the Church could break your heart after the priest berated him for being a sinner. She knew that Tim Gary was a good man, and seeing the Church's rule about suicide being put into action seemed to mark a turning point for her.
DeleteChiming in with everyone else. There are rules that I follow without question (and agree with). Then, there are those rules that I will not follow at all (dress codes in high school, the FL nonsense as Kat pointed out). I really wish we knew more about Agatha's start in life...how she ended up becoming a sister. That story could tell us why she followed rules for quite some time. Until she couldn't! and, to answer your question Bonny, I don't think she abandoned her belief in God...just her belief in the way the Catholic church was running things and their rules that made no sense.
ReplyDeleteI think maybe that scene in the gas station when the nuns stopped in for cough drops showed Agatha that the Church might be a place she could fit in and be unremarkable, just as she wanted after the trauma of losing her mother. I agree that she didn't lose faith in God, but rather the "men in charge who had been reckless."
DeleteI will follow rules if they make sense and if they are for the good of everyone. I will not follow rules that promote hatred, such as some of the "don't say gay" rules certain states are enacting. The few nuns I know personally are all rule breakers when it comes to rules that are senseless and do not promote the common good. I really admire the strength these women show in advocating for people who suffer from senseless and hateful rules.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, I think Agatha walked away from the institution of the church and at the same time deepened her faith in God...much like the "nones" who have left the church, yet still remain faithful to God.
It's interesting to me that the nuns you know tend to be rule breakers, but they are kind of outside the norm of society by even becoming nuns. I don't know any nuns myself, so it's also interesting to me that there are "nones" that have left the Church and still kept their faith. I've always thought of them inextricably related, but Agatha certainly showed that that could be the case.
DeleteLike Debbie, I've been exposed to some pretty radical sisters at a local retreat center https://adriandominicans.org/ They are pretty strong in their social justice and environmental values. And they stood up to Pope Benedict: https://www.npr.org/2012/05/03/151943345/nuns-and-the-vatican-a-clash-decades-in-making
ReplyDeleteRules...as a rule (ahem) I'm not a rule breaker just for the sake of breaking a rule. But if it makes no sense or goes against my values, then I'm outta there. (Was raised Catholic, and decided in college that the some of the rules made no sense.) And some of the rules being legislated in Texas, Florida and elsewhere....oh my word...who wants to live in that kind of world? Wake up and smell the coffee.
I did think that the headings of the 3 sections of the book were interesting: Poverty, Chastity, Obedience. Those are presumably part of the sisters' vows and they are also a framework of self denial in order to bring them all into "one body".
I naively thought of nuns as sheltered and uninvolved with the world. Maybe some orders are, but you and several others during our discussion last night explained that that was not the case with many modern-day nuns. Some rules are important as a society, but there are definitely rules (like those passed or being contemplated in TX and FL as you mentioned) that society doesn't need. I also liked the sections of the book, and several people last night mentioned that they wouldn't mind a sequel to see what happened to Agatha. I imagine her continuing on her pathway questioning rules, deciding that many of the Church's rules no longer fit, and eventually officially leaving the Church and living (mostly) happily ever after.
DeleteI think Agatha needed those rules when she joined the sisters but as she matured and started teaching she witnessed other types of rules and the consequences. I think the men of the church who misbehaved really bothered her and made her question things.
ReplyDeleteI tend to be a rule follower if the rules make sense. I really enjoyed the book, it was a quick read for me and I lucked out finding it a library a town over in the middle of February.
I'm glad you found a copy and were able to read the book. I also enjoyed it and thought along the same lines as you. Agatha welcomed the rules of the Church and needed them at the time she became a nun. The "reckless men" of the Church affected so many others and I think eventually Agatha came to see what an awful situation they had created. I'm usually a rule follower, but the older I get, the more I seem to question many of the rules I follow. That's not a bad thing!
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